Episode Transcript
[00:00:06] Speaker A: Welcome to the Inspired culture. I'm your host, Eric Himes. On this show, we explore the stories and strategies that help leaders create cultures where people thrive. Today I'm joined by Mark Hadas, a serial entrepreneur, number one best selling author, and a highly acclaimed performance coach. Through his work, Mark helps leaders and teams rediscover purposes, resilience, and inspiration. Mark, let's start by looking back at your early leadership journey. Many leaders feel stuck in transactional roles, struggling to inspire their teams while still meeting business goals.
Welcome to the show, Mark.
[00:00:44] Speaker B: Hey, thanks, Eric. Good to be here.
[00:00:46] Speaker A: It's great to have such an incredible leader like yourself here today to share with our audience some of the things that you've been able to successfully accomplish over your career in such a short time.
You know, it's really, really neat. And one of the topics that we're going to get into is some of the problems that people are facing in the audience about leadership. It often feels transactional and it often feels impossible to inspire teams while meeting business goals.
Reflecting on your early leadership roles, what moments showed you the power of leading with inspiration rather than just authority?
[00:01:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I think I naturally, because of a lot of deep insecurities, led that way rather than with authority. I just never was that guy.
So it was more how do I be fully authentic in conversation such that I can get to know what's the need of people? And part of that insecurity was how do I please?
So I was really like, how do I make everybody okay? And that's not a way to lead.
That's not a strength.
Elements of it could be, but given the way that I took it, it was bending a little bit too much. And so a lot of my early growth was about stepping into who am I as a leader, like what do I want?
And people responded, a lot of people. But it could be taken advantage of too, the way I was.
So the big catalyst I think for me of shifting was when I went through a serious crisis.
I remember it was early on in our business. We had a client, they owed us about 350 grand and they get a call from their attorney and they're going out of business. He says, we can pay you 15 cents, 15 on the dollar.
And I'm stunned ret receiving this phone call on a Friday. I was still picturing me in my office and I just said, you're going to drive us out of business. And he flippantly says, what are we your only client?
I'm like, well, you're the only client that owes us 350 grand, and we were on pace to do maybe a million that year. We were pretty young.
And he said, look, I've got compassion for the entrepreneur. You're actually our biggest creditor. Let me see what I can do.
So while I'm waiting, I get counsel, right?
Wisdom seeks counsel. And I called two gentlemen. One was my uncle, and the other one was an entrepreneur, Brian Wink, who I had a lot of admiration for, who was in a similar business.
And they both said, mark, whatever they come back with, take it and run.
Whatever it is, just say yes and take the check. Because if you go to court, if you do anything, you're probably going to end up with nothing.
So I was prepared to do that. The guy calls back, he says, we could pay you 50 cents on the $5 0, but I'm going to FedEx over something you have to sign right now. You'll have to check tomorrow. And we did.
And it was a great move because it's like, cut your losses and move on. So by cutting our losses and moving on, we were able to then be with it and make strategic decisions. Now, one of the things that I did as a kind of a good move at that point. What do you do in crisis? How do you behave? And I went to all of our employees that were owed money and our contractors, and we told them what was up. And we told our contractors, look, we're going to pay you. We just don't know when because we're going to receive this money.
It's not going to pay all of our bills. Be patient with us. Every one of them said, great, we'll be patient with you. When we finally got to a place where we could pay them all off, I remember Chris Goodacre called me. He said, I just want to thank you. And I'm like, for what? And he said, do you know how many people this is during the dot com bus? Do you know how many people that he knew were owed money and never got paid? He said, you're the only one. He said, I've called around. You're the only one that did it.
And that felt really good. He said, I just pray for you that your business thrives.
And that was a good moment for me. So in the moment of leadership, I don't know if anyone can get a nugget out of there, but that was some of my early crisis moment in leader qualities.
[00:05:05] Speaker A: Yeah. So that's incredible, first of all, because you were put in a tough situation by somebody else, and then you had to make a Decision as a leader leading your organization, what's the right thing to do, which nobody else was making. It was a highly unpopular decision amongst business owners. Right. You know, if I didn't get paid well, the thing is, well, I'm not going to pay somebody else.
It's an easy choice and it's a justifiable action in most leaders heads to take that route. But you took the high road and you had called your people to inform them what's happened and then you figured out a way to get people paid on top of it.
Right. And so I think that's a huge nugget because it's a level of integrity, you know, and that integrity that you displayed showed one, who your people are working for and with, and two, who all your partners are working with.
You know, I will go the extra mile for you because I know that in your hardest time you committed to see it through and you still made us whole. Right. And I thought that that story is so compelling.
So we're going to go a little bit further into this. So how did you make it whole and make it right and how long did it take?
[00:06:21] Speaker B: It took us.
I'm recalling back, this was many years ago, but it might have taken us four months to get to it. But it's a long time to wait for people and we just cut the whole check.
What we owed people, we paid them in full so that they had it.
Now the thing that I will tell you about the story is I could have avoided that.
We knew that this client was in arrears, so we're looking at our receivables. And my business partner at the time, Joel, is like, hey, these guys are 90 days out. And it was a startup, but they were owned by a major public corporation. So I thought, well, they're going to be good for it. Hey, just relax. And. And we had never had that kind of situation.
And I didn't take his wisdom of we need to put pressure on this and collect or stop working.
So that was a big mistake on our part early on. So I learned a lesson there too, of if someone's not paying you, there's a reason they're not paying you and find out and make sure that that gets corrected and rectified very quickly. So some learnings out of that on a number of fronts.
[00:07:34] Speaker A: Yeah, Arkansas, really important role in a company. Right. In keeping your cash flow and your receivables under a certain number in that. So great lesson though, because a lot of people want to trust everybody and think they're Good for it.
And I think everybody has the best intention of going into a business deal saying, we're going to pay on time, but then it doesn't happen sometimes. And what do we have to do about that?
Usually in those situations, the squeaky wheel gets their cash first and then there's some left with nothing in that too.
[00:08:12] Speaker B: True, true. The other thing is, remember, the people involved aren't always responsible. So the person who hired us wasn't the one that caused the thing to go under. They were responsible for building the product and brought us in to help build because we were a software development company.
And so I remember that was an important conversation that needed to happen. To call this woman Linda and say, hey, look, I get it that you've got to be struggling too, right? Having compassion for the people that are involved.
I've seen a lot of attack energy in leadership. Things don't go someone's way and they're looking for someone to blame. Of course that's not healthy, whether it's directed at ourselves or somebody else. What's healthy is this is the situation.
What do we do today? How do I learn from it? And now how do I take that forward so that we can have different outcomes? And now everyone can learn, but include everyone in the learning opportunity?
And certainly she was with the company that did go bankrupt, and I could have said all kinds of things about what she could have done or would have done differently in her future, but that's her path.
Our opportunity is forgiveness. Like, how do I release that? So I'm not carrying that forward into my next adventure. Because one of the things that I've seen as a leader is people who don't forgive and release some of those past things, they tend to repeat the.
[00:09:46] Speaker A: Mistake absolutely well, because you're holding on to what you don't want to have happen again.
And so it absolutely happens again. Because subconsciously you're making a decision about what you don't want to happen again, but you don't remember the behaviors that actually got you into the same boat the last time, because I'm not going to be that. But yet that's then who we arrive to be. Because we haven't made the decision of who we want to be. We're running from the decision of what we don't want to do again in that. And so we catch ourselves in this leadership debacle thinking we're making the right choice by pushing it away instead of forgiving it and letting it go. Right. Because anything we're holding onto, there's a slight edge in your decision making. Then that comes in and that just sprinkles in there a little bit, which gives you a blurred vision.
[00:10:39] Speaker B: Well, what you're highlighting is what I call the emotion trap. So you've got this trapped emotion of fear around a topic, right? And I think of the jack in the boxes. Remember those old toys all around the mulberry bush? And then pop goes the weasel. And think of those as trapped emotions. Well, they're there and they're kind of spinning. Well, if we're engaged in fear, then the things linked to the fear are going to influence the way that we see the world and it's going to influence the way that we present our or interact with the world.
And one of my teachers revealed to me years ago that if someone makes a decision from fear, the outcome is always going to be negative, Always.
And so if you don't somehow find a way to release the energy stored in the jack in the box, consciously, unconsciously, it's going to pop in, surprise. But we've all been there as adults where we don't want that thing to pop out.
So you can flick the little plastic and open it or run it until it goes. And now it pops into your hand and you gently, well, consciously you can allow fear to come up there and all the energy with it. And now as it releases, staying in a conscious place like, okay, how do I now want, as you said, how do I now want to move forward?
I choose this. And we take back what was always rightly ours, which is the full expression of who we are in our relationship with our divine relationship, and then move forward together.
Right? But someone who cuts off that life and is operating from fear is over, distant from the truth of who they are. And they separated themselves from that relationship because that's not what that relationship with our Creator is going to bring. It's going to bring love and peace and joy. And we want to be in that space, make choices from there.
[00:12:32] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. E O N D Mark, just talking about the fear aspect and the jack in the box, it's like this thing that's popping up these emotions inside. But you know, in order to forgive, we have to receive forgiveness first, right? Because if we don't understand what it's like, we can't give it necessarily if we haven't accepted it in our own lives, right? And that's bringing Christ into our lives and doing that and receiving his love and forgiveness for our sins. And from there that feeling of understanding like that release, right? Of surrender gives us the ability then to only then forgive others for any of the wrongs and not carry them, because God doesn't want us to carry that. That's a heavy burden. And he's like, I'll take it.
I've got it.
[00:13:24] Speaker B: Absolutely lay it on the altar.
And one of the elements of what you're talking about with forgiveness that gets mistaken in the world a lot is people think forgiveness in our human experience is to let someone off the hook.
And it's very common, like, oh, that's all right. I'll let it go, right? I'll be the better person, and they'll let go, let the other person go. But what often happens is when people do that and let someone off the hook, they're stuck with the pain because they didn't release the pain, which is what you're talking about. Like, hey, you've got to lay that down. You've got to let go of that, give it, and allow for that forgiveness in us, the releasing energy, you know, to be purified and allow for anything related to it to also get adjusted. Right? Which is where one of the Beatitudes talks about, blessed are the meek.
Right? And that doesn't mean people inherit the world, Right. It doesn't mean weak. It means blessed are those who don't hang on their every word as if it's gospel. And they are meek. They let go of being right.
And it's like, okay, I don't know how this situation occurred. I don't know all the dynamics. So God, help me, guide me, help me to move forward. Help me to let go. Help me to move in a direction that's aligned with your divine will. And if we can get into that space, well, now we have transcended that pain and we're no longer carrying it. We put the bag down and say, okay, we'll leave this. God's got it, and let's now carry on.
[00:15:02] Speaker A: Yeah, we'd have to carry it, right? And, you know, he's there, carry it out. He's already done it. He's taken care of it, taken, you know, so we could surrender it at his feet and keep on going. And the freeness of it is the. Our healing, the individual that lets go of that, they heal and then they get this new set of eyes to see through.
That's totally different.
It's one of love and kindness. It's the fruit of the spirit, I believe, and you let that go.
There's so much more that's, I believe, where your purpose comes into because then you can receive what God has for you. But you have to first be able to see for that to happen and then be able to hear what he's calling you into.
[00:15:50] Speaker B: Well said.
[00:15:50] Speaker A: You know, but when we have anger and other things there and it's about me, I can't see, and I miss everything else around me.
[00:15:59] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:00] Speaker A: You know, in it.
[00:16:01] Speaker B: Yeah. There's a great. Do you ever watch Westworld?
[00:16:04] Speaker A: I haven't.
[00:16:05] Speaker B: There's a great scene in there where they've got the robots, right. That are very human like. And the robots are programmed not to see certain things, so they. They miss, like, the worker entrances and things like that. They only see the fake world. And it's like that anger and fear block sight. So it could be right there and you could miss something that's like, oh, here's my exit door, my entrance door. God's got it right in front of us. But we've blinded ourselves by hanging onto this hostility or fear.
[00:16:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Which is crippling to those. And we can't see because we don't know our value and our own worth that God has put on us and in us. And so when we're living in this space, a lot of times, psychologically, we're thinking less than, not enough.
Fake it till you make it. All the things the world says, but the reality, it's the complete opposite.
God's given you everything that you need.
Just let go and then you'll see.
And leaning into that.
[00:17:12] Speaker B: I hate fake it till you make it.
I think it's one of the worst things you could tell somebody is fake it till you make it. As you're saying that.
[00:17:18] Speaker A: Yeah, it is the worst.
[00:17:20] Speaker B: It is. It's like, no. How about be who you are and embrace who you are and where you're at, and then start from there. Then you're going to surround yourself with the right people, relationships, resources to help you get to where you want to go. Fake until you make it.
You're on a wrong path trying to pretend. And that pressure builds, builds, builds, and it leads to ultimately drama, trauma, crashes.
I've done it. Doesn't work.
[00:17:47] Speaker A: Same here.
It doesn't work at all.
[00:17:50] Speaker B: Well, take it from two people who've done it.
[00:17:53] Speaker A: Never fake it because you won't make it.
[00:17:55] Speaker B: Yeah. It's a saying that should be banned from business.
Do not do that unless you want to fully fail in a more glorious way later.
[00:18:05] Speaker A: Yeah. The failure is much larger in the fake it to make it space. We have the corner market on that, so.
Well, Mark, we'll be right back. We're going to take a quick break and we'll come back and talk about our next topic together.
[00:18:18] Speaker B: Awesome.
[00:18:19] Speaker A: Thank you. We'll be right back. Up next, we'll explore how leadership has evolved in today's fast paced world and the strategies leaders can use to adapt.
We'll be right back.
Loving what you're watching. Don't miss a moment of the Inspired Culture. Any of your favorite NOW Media TV shows, live or on demand, anytime, anywhere. Download the free Now Media TV app on Roku or iOS and enjoy instant access to our full lineup of bilingual programming in both English and Spanish. Prefer to listen on the go catch the podcast version of the show right on the Now Media TV website at ww.nowmedia tv for business and breaking news to lifestyle, culture and everything in between. Now Media TV is streaming 24 7. Ready when you are.
We're back with more on the Inspired Culture.
I'm here with Mark Hadas and in this segment we're shifting gears to talk about leading teams. Today, leadership feels harder than ever. Team dynamics are changing faster than leaders can keep up. Our topic of discussion is the problem is facing many in the audience is that leading people feels harder than ever and it often feels like team dynamics keep changing faster than we can keep up. So Mark, if you would tell us, you know, how has your approach to leadership evolved from your past roles to today?
[00:19:55] Speaker B: Well, there's a few different things I'd love to touch on during this segment here.
[00:20:01] Speaker A: Let's do it.
[00:20:03] Speaker B: One is I'm working with a team of young people. So we've got a couple hundred people that are in their 20s, early 20s, and it's very, very interesting to see how hungry they are. They're seeking some kind of center.
And there's poles in the world, of course, that pull them away toward money and relationship and all kinds of things. But when we just focus on their business life, it's like how do you get someone to center and help them in that state so that the best of them can come out? And that's what I see the best leaders are doing. But you can't do that if you're not doing it yourself. So one of the areas that I'd like to center on here is the idea that if you've got a team that is younger, they have missed a lot in terms of that guidance and that support of I mean, we've stripped faith from schools, religion from schools. We've stripped it from a lot of society.
So what are people's guiding focuses. There's a lot of TikToks and Insta things that people are flipping through.
And believe it or not, that's programming the minds of our young and our youth. And it's like, well, it's leaving this huge gap. Well, how do you support someone who's got this massive gap, recognizing that you want to help them feel good about what they're doing and they do want to contribute, but they don't always know how to navigate those tough points.
So I think leadership today needs to recognize that more than ever before. People need almost a pastor.
Think of that. Think of the role of a pastor, of leading their sheep. It's like, well, what does that mean? It doesn't mean go become a priest and go to rabbinical school or anything. What it means is you've got to know yourself. You've got to know the gifts and talents and the woes of who you are so that you can deal and address those in your own life and then show up and be a model for other people so that you can almost pour into them in a different way. It's no longer just about, well, here's what you do, right? Anybody could do that.
It's, here's how you be.
And if you can support someone in knowing that, oh, I've got a leader on my side who is being the full expression of the life force that they were born and able to bring forward. And they're compassionate, they're filled with fearlessness.
They're able to see in the highest and best in themselves and in others and pull that out.
They're not lying. And as we talked in the first segment, faking it till they make it, but they're being true and authentic with where they're at, which opens the door for the leader to also not just be the teacher or the guide, but someone who's willing to receive. And so it's a model that I think is really critical and supports a coaching model that is open for people to recognize. Oh, I can come to Eric, and Eric's not going to bite my head off if I missed xyz.
He's going to come with love and compassion. Right? And love and compassion can be tough when it needs to be tough, but it has a gentle ear. Right? You're listening first before putting your input on it.
So I think leaders need to do that first and foremost. Anything you want to say on that part? I'll pause.
[00:23:35] Speaker A: Yeah. No. Well, I mean, the whole holistic approach in leadership and also doing your own work I think that as leaders, a lot of them have made it to a space in leadership that maybe is right, not rightfully theirs. And I only say that because they have faked it to make it, but they're still faking it.
And those are the hardest leaders to follow because other people know, they know, Everybody actually knows.
Everybody knows.
It's not that you're hiding it, but you think you are, right. And me wearing that mask for so long in my own leadership career, I thought I was hiding it, but now everybody can see right through it. Once I was able to see it, I'm like, oh, everybody knows. Cat's out of the bag, right? And I built something off of an emptiness on the inside. It was like this beautiful vase, hollow, right? Nothing, nothing on the inside until a crack, crack. And it just crumbled. And I. So Mark, what you're talking about is, you know, a leader has to become whole and okay with where they're at.
And when they are okay with where they're at, that's the moment they have the ability to give others everything they have to offer and also be open to growing, recognizing that they don't have everything they need. They don't have all the answers and they don't have it all together.
But they can then go to work and start getting the things that they need, learning the things, doing the things that they need to do to develop them to the next level of leadership.
[00:25:18] Speaker B: Or hire recognize like, oh, I need to hire for that because that's not me.
And it just opens up so many possibilities for where the leader can take it.
[00:25:27] Speaker A: Yeah, well, and that's like we all are only given so many gifts. Nobody has all of them. Right.
[00:25:33] Speaker B: Except for you.
[00:25:33] Speaker A: But I don't think so.
I wish not actually. I actually don't even wish that because that would be non focus.
[00:25:41] Speaker B: So uninteresting.
[00:25:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
Where are we going? I don't know which gift are we getting into today?
But the reality is is we only have a couple gifts.
And I don't say that only as a negative or a less than God's gifted everybody with something with a purpose, with intention and something they're able to do well. Right. And so with that, if we fake it till we make it, I'm going to go back to that because we're talking about this younger crowd because they're learning from the level up of leaders. And if they're not authentic in their leadership, well, their first guided tour is going to be misguided and misled.
And so we want to Check out. Does the leader have really what it takes to lead? Am I following somebody worth following? Or do I need to recognize that this isn't the leader for me? Because they haven't done their work.
And I think a way to do that is ask questions about the leader in conversation. Don't just take direction, but get to know them and see how engaged they become and really being transparent with who they are.
Those most authentic are the ones that are most transparent.
I find if they can tell you your story, their story, to you, they're ones worth following because they've done the work and they're comfortable in their own skin. If they look like they have it all together, the likelihood is they don't.
And the reality is that they're leading from a place of insecurity and not a place of strength and vulnerability.
[00:27:12] Speaker B: Right.
And unfortunately, or fortunately, it's easy to spot.
But what leaders who wear the masks often do is they surround themselves with people who are willing to tolerate their mask. Yeah, so if you surround you with your. Think about that, you know, if. If you surround yourself with people who are willing to tolerate your mask, the reason that they're willing to tolerate it is they have a mask. They don't want people to see through either. So now you have two people, at least in the equation, who are hiding behind masks, who are now running a company.
It is a recipe for disaster. Ultimately, the cracks are going to be seen. And it takes someone who's willing to come into that conversation from a pure state to be able to poke at it in a gentle way, in a confronting way, but an honest way, because truth's the way. And if they don't receive it, then it's probably time to go find another job. If you're that person who is fully aligned in that state. Not that we're all perfect, we all have our blind spots, which is one of the great things about the work that you do. It's like helping people with the 50 masks see, okay, what are they? What are the subtler ones? Some might be gross masks, some might be subtler masks that we hide behind.
But how do we continue to allow for the self honesty? And I've been reading the proverbs in the Bible and they talk about the wise men and the foolish men. And it's really fascinating because it's right there, it's just right in our face. And wise people are going to seek counsel. Wise people, when they're reproved, they're going to welcome that because it's going to help from Their knowledge of how they are.
But the fool is going to push back on someone who gives them insight that conflicts with the way that they want to be seen.
And so pay attention to your boss. If they tell you repeatedly that they're a fool, just recognize that's not going to be a long term strategy for success.
And so what do you do as an employee? If you're the leader, you better take accountability and recognize, okay, by the way, you're not alone. Like, there's a lot of leaders who are dealing with that. Eric and I are talking about this because we were those leaders and we've recognized like, oh, it's a lot happier. There's a lot more insight and joy and vision that can come when the masks aren't there.
[00:29:44] Speaker A: Right.
[00:29:45] Speaker B: Which could be a little bit counterintuitive. It's like, no, you don't have to pretend to be anything. It's better, way better.
[00:29:51] Speaker A: It's no work required, no effort.
[00:29:53] Speaker B: So if you're that person, like, okay, there's resources here that you can come and find and start removing those because you want to. Because if you don't consciously remove them, it's going to feel like a bulldozer hit you one day and a bolt of lightning the next.
And the next it's rosy and you're going down the most exhilarating ride. And these big highs and big lows aren't how business should be. That's unnecessary.
So if you can remove those and create a space for your employees to step into and recognize, oh, well, if it's safe for them to do it, maybe I can too. And that's where the book Awakening youg Optimal Workforce that I wrote helps people because it identifies these 10 elements of well being. And in these 10 elements well being, there's these fables with exercises right in the book that people can do so you can recognize, oh, is that one of my strengths or weaknesses? And we have an assessment, actually that measures the 10 to identify what are the top three areas where you have an opportunity to change and grow and things. In that assessment, it really helps highlight where do you focus?
Because someone might say, well, and with you with the 50 masks, like, okay, well, what are the 50 masks? Which ones resonate? Well, this is another element of that self reflection. Like, what are the 10 elements? What are the three that I can really dive deep in and help improve? And it could be that you do have unconscious bias toward sticking with what you think you know and saying, okay, well, I can't let anyone see cracks in My knowledge? Well, you have a love of truth challenge. You think you love truth, but really you're blocking it so that you can protect yourself from someone seen that you don't know.
Or it could be that you have a relationship issue with others where you instantly go to blame and you look for how to push that onto others. And that needs to be addressed. So these 10 elements are talked about.
It's done in a fun way. It's sort of this company that's gone through it, and you can see people who had it as a weakness and now have it as a strength. And you can see the transition in each of the 10 story elements and then learn and grow and practice along the way.
[00:32:01] Speaker A: That's a great book, Mark, and great vision on that. So tell me, where did you come with the vision to write the book?
[00:32:10] Speaker B: So if you go back far enough, you get to the Bible, it's all right there.
But there was a.
Back in the 80s, Dr. Dan McDougall and Dr. Michael Rice, R, Y, C E.
They had. And he was a priest actually at one point, or still is, perhaps they. The. But the element at the time, and Dr. McDougall was a psychologist. And what they did is they said, hey, we want to help identify what are these areas in the Bible that they're talking about in the Beatitudes and in some of these other things about human behavior. And so they pulled these 10 elements out and they created 165 questions to measure them.
And I learned about them in 2012. And I went to Michael and I said, hey, Michael, these are absolutely incredible.
Could we bring this to the business world? And he said, yeah, absolutely. Just give me credit, which I'm doing. And I said, well, tell you what, I don't like your paper copy. Could we digitize it?
I'll hire a programmer. And he said, as long as I can bring it to the business world, we can both use it. So I did. I hired a programmer. I used to run a programming company, and they built this thing out. And so now people can go online and take it and get a report and then we can do the assessment and really get it to more people.
So the inspiration goes back to biblical times.
They had pulled it out of a practice that they had developed called the laws of living.
[00:33:35] Speaker A: Okay. And.
[00:33:36] Speaker B: And the core of law versus rule. We as human beings love to create rules and call them laws. But the true laws of living are God's laws.
They're irrefutable.
Gravity is a law.
But there's mental, emotional, spiritual laws. That if you abide by them, they're going to actually support you in your life. If not, they're no respecter of person and they will crush you.
Not because they're angry and evil, but because if you don't honor gravity and you decide to walk off of a six story building, well, guess what? You're going to have the consequences of walking off a six story building because most people haven't figured out how to fly yet.
So the opportunity is to start learning what are these laws and these 10 elements of well being help bring awareness to gaps in people's thinking of where they've been programmed or incorrectly often and where they can unprogram a little bit with the guidance of our faith. Background would be, well, hey, call on the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit will guide us. The greatest teacher around is right inside us. Well, how do you unlock that? And these tools help unlock that. And they're all in the Beatitudes. They're all available.
And one of my missions is to spread that in as many ways as possible through the business lens, through the spiritual lens. I have my first church outing coming up pretty soon with another book series that begins with book one called the Lowly Prophet. It's a faith journey, fictional with Jesus. It's a lot of fun, but it has these Beatitudes as the underpinning, which are these same core elements.
They're all there.
And the idea is how do we get them into people's minds and hearts so that they can support the unwinding process? Because of ourselves, we can't do it. No, we really surrender into it. It can happen very gently.
[00:35:27] Speaker A: You know, I have some stuff to say to this. We got to run to a break. But we're going to be right back and we're going to just pick up this conversation where we're at.
I think it's really great, Mark.
[00:35:37] Speaker B: Perfect.
[00:35:41] Speaker A: We'll be right back.
[00:35:49] Speaker B: Sam.
[00:36:24] Speaker A: We're back with more on the inspired culture.
So welcome back, Mark, and it's great to continue picking up our our segment where we left off. You know, so the influence of the world, you know, like the Beatitudes and all of those things, God's word for us and what it is that we're called to live by, you know, well, he designed us one, he's our creator, right? He's created us and then he's given us this tool called the Bible. It's like, hey, here is all the experiences before Christ and after Christ and how we should live and also learn from how people Live before us and after us, you know, and you know, a reasonably new Christ follower. Like I would say I've been in church all my life, but really dedicated and gave my life at 40, like really to say I'm going to follow what God has to say instead of act like I'm going to follow what God has to say or sleep in church, right?
[00:37:21] Speaker B: And so that was around my age too. I was like around 40 as well.
[00:37:24] Speaker A: Is it like it takes so long to wake up, you know, and sometimes. And it's because of the pain of her, at least my childhood where I didn't want to wake up, I needed, you know, not to wake up because, you know, I didn't address the pain in my life.
But with that, if you grow up in the world, you have one standard to live the world, right? And if you're not in the Word, you don't have truth.
And so you're living in a false environment.
And people would say, well why? How could that be false? It's the world you're living in the world. This is all we know, right? Well, for you and I that live that way, that's all we knew for a while, right? What was important is what we could get, you know, all of the things, the status, you name it, right? You know, I remember, you know, flying on 1500 planes. I was like, oh, I've arrived, I've flew on 1500 planes, I've arrived to a lot of places. But I didn't arrive where I needed to, you know, in any of those trips, by the way.
But the reality is, is that if we don't have a sense of truth and knowing and a firm foundation, we have no filter to press up against everything else. And so if we're using the worldly filter, well, that's shifting on a daily basis. There's no consistency in the world anywhere.
And so what happens is we're always chasing and pursuing something fleeting and we're putting all of this energy against it only to be chasing it once we get it. Oh, it's a false self gratification, right? It's like, oh, I made it until that doesn't work any longer. And then I need the next thing and the next thing and we're after this lifelong pursuit.
But in the end God's like, just pursue me. Yeah, I'm waiting, just turn around, I'm right here. And I have a lot of wisdom I want to give you and I want, I love you so much and I had a plan and it's not the Path you're on right now, you know, you're a few degrees off. Come back, weigh what the world says against the word, my word, and what I've given you, and then you could see clearly, you know, and I. So I love how your book brings people back to the core root of who they are, you know, through a fun way that allows people to see differently, to remove the scales, take, you know, see through clear lenses, and pursue the purpose that God has instilled for them in that.
[00:39:54] Speaker B: Right?
And just so no one gets the wrong idea and, you know, this, but it's not a recipe.
Like you would bake a cake where you put everything in and you're putting it in the oven and you can, you know, pull it out and you're done. Right? There's no finish. Right. It's an evolutionary process within us. I mean, there's layers that we go through on our. On our journey. And when we turn and make God first, which we're called to do in, I think, every faith out there, make God first. When we turn and make God first and we start to learn what God's voice sounds like, you know, through our experience, then it becomes a relationship where we can cultivate that in such a way that we listen.
[00:40:47] Speaker A: Right?
[00:40:48] Speaker B: Because in listening, we will find that we've been given the gifts from very early on to allow for that journey back on track, to be the shortest possible distance from wherever we are off to back on. And the Holy Spirit guides us, surrendering and letting go and allowing for that change.
But I want to share a story with you about the writing, because I think that this is one example and any leader out there listen to this, because it won't show up the same way for you, but it'll show up just like any developmental process you go through developing those skills. And as the skills are developed, well, then you can do more with them. Think of any sport or music or business or whatever it might be.
So one day I hear this guidance that was foreign to me, and it was to sell my business. And I thought, okay, God, if this is you, this was 2006. If this is you, you're going to have to show me the way, because I don't know how to do that. And there was more to the message, but that core message, like, okay, show me. And so as I surrendered, I saw that he brought someone in my life who helped stabilize the company. And once it was stable, right. Firmer foundation, it was able to grow.
Well, once it grew to a certain level, we got to a Place where then the sale occurred in quite a divine way too. That's a whole other story. But it was an amazing experience for me to go through that and see, like, wow.
I didn't know how to do the first step.
And so I knew it wasn't of me.
And so then I continued to lean in, like, okay, God, now what?
And so there was this transformational process that happened after the sale. And it wasn't always easy. It involved some difficult moments.
But after, I was on the other side of the most difficult of moments.
I heard my son, who was 9 at the time, say, hey, dad, would you tell me a story? I'm like, yeah, sure, I'll go tell you a story. So I tuck him in. Did I tell you this before? So I tuck him in.
[00:43:09] Speaker A: And even if you did, you haven't told everybody else.
[00:43:13] Speaker B: Well, true. Well, so for about six, seven nights, I'm telling them stories and making them up. I'm just coming up with stuff and piecing things together.
But I was running out of nine year old stories to tell.
And one night I hear mark, Mark, don't tell him a story. Allow the story to come.
And so I knew that was God speaking to me because it sounded like the same voice I'd listened to multiple times before. I'm like, all right, I surrender.
And a story came out of me. And it was like my lips moved and sounds came out and words came out and paragraphs. And soon there was this completed story. And I'm feeling jacked up, like, wow, this was the coolest thing ever. And I say, henry, what'd you think of that? And he says, well, he gives me a thumbs up and he says, dad, that was really good, dad.
I'm like, okay, I knew it wasn't me. So I'm like, yeah, God, that was really good. And he says, but it's just going to get better.
I know you're just learning.
And I got chills.
[00:44:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:44:19] Speaker B: And so I couldn't wait for him to ask me to tell a story. And that happened maybe 15, 16 times. And I recorded these. So I have these recorded somewhere.
And I thought, well, someday maybe that'll be a book. But the opportunity was for me just to listen.
And each time I just was blown away at how these characters that I didn't know about were coming from all different angles coming together and creating this magical story.
It's like, wow.
So then he stops asking me and I keep asking him and he's like, nope, no. He's like, no, not tonight. No, not Tonight, what is going on?
The favorite part of my day is gone.
So then I'm invited to this business conference. And this woman who I meet at the business conference for the first time, we're talking, she's like, oh, I'd like to talk to you some more. So I go talk to her and she says, what her reason for talking? And I said, well, can I tell you a story?
And I'm thinking, wait, can I pull those words back in my mouth? Where is this coming from? And she says, yeah, sure. So I tell her a story and she's like, how did you know this? She's crying midway through. I said, well, what do you mean? She said, well, you just told a story about my life.
And I said, I don't know. And I'm asking God later, like, God, what's going on? It's like, mark, just trust. And so I keep being nurtured and nurtured and nurtured. Soon, about a year later, I'm at my desk and God says, take out a notepad, these big post it notes. And I'm like, okay. I take it out and it's like, write these down. So I write down 14 what become chapter prompts. At the end of writing them down, I hear, go down in the basement, record it. So I audio record it. That became my first book, Awakening the optimal leader, the precursor of awakening your optimal workforce, which is also a fable, both fables. And that kind of brought me into writing at a whole new level. I couldn't believe it. This whole story in 90 minutes comes out now. It wasn't a finished book. It needed refinement.
That was the beginning of my faith journey in getting this word out. Because God was grooming me, if you will, to come closer and closer into relationship such that I could eventually have the courage, which I didn't have at the time, to go out and speak from a faith perspective. And so in 2023, this is years later, because that was 17 or so, that first book, 2023, I'm meditating and praying and I hear God say, mark, write the lowly prophet.
I'm like, okay. At that time, I'm obedient.
I said, what's it about? Tells me what it's about. I said, okay, Anything else? Like, yeah, write these down. So I write down 18 chapter prompts. And then God says, Start writing in three weeks and schedule five hours a day for 30 days.
So obediently I go in my calendar three weeks to that day. I schedule out five, five hours a day for 30 days, a few things happen in between. I get to the place of writing that afternoon. I was prepared by a meeting that morning that had I not had it wouldn't have been the same book because I had to release some judgments that I had about Prophet, because to me, prophets were either in the Bible or frauds.
And through this conversation this woman shared, she's like, no, Mark, prophets are alive today. God speaks through people. And she had an experience where she's like, God's speaking through you. Like, you know. I said, well, what you don't know is this afternoon I'm going to write a book and start writing this thing called the Lowly Prophet God asked me to write. She's like, well, that's perfect.
So nine days later, I had the draft of the Lowly Prophet, which is here. And this is a fiction novel with Jesus. A lot of fun. Deals with highs and lows of life, goes into some mental health things because I went through a mental health challenge. And this is a beautiful illustration of what God can do within an unevolved, imperfect person.
I'm seeing the perfection in God's word in here. And that was the first he told me. Of 11 books that are coming, and I've got about four in different draft stages. Two are published. The fifth one I'll start writing in October, and it just keeps coming. And I've got my first church opportunity to go and speak at a. At a local church to start sharing this. I don't know what's going to come from it. You know, kind of like with my son or, you know, with these steps, it's like, is it a step in the direction of going to the church just to realize like, oh, that's not your bag or do I go in? It's like, hey, this is where you always belonged. Now go and spread it to more. Do I bring it back into business? So I'm kind of in this state of trusting and trust fully because God might say, turn right. And in four clicks he says, turn left.
Will you be obedient in turning right and then again obedient in turning left? And when we're obedient and God's first, we never miss a turn that's right.
[00:49:23] Speaker A: We're always on where we need to be at the right time at the very right moment. Not early and never late, just right on time. And so, Mark, you know, I think for you, like one, thank you for that incredible story. I love hearing how your son just wanted you to tell him stories, you know, and then like, how upset you were when. No more stories. You know, it's like, come on, I need another story. You know, it reminds me actually of the movie. Adam Sandler was in Bedtime Stories, you know, and. But it was his kids telling him the story, and. And then all the things would happen, right? But this is a little bit different than that. This is God telling you through your son to give you practice, right? In a safe environment, to give a story and another story, and even using your son to tell you that. And you're going to get better. And here you are authoring multiple books, and you have so much to offer through what God has given you to others, which is phenomenal. And that's what this is all about. And so I love the journey that you're on and the work that you're doing, because it's part of being the hands and feet right in that. And so it's really neat to see that and know you and you. And God's never wrong in my own experience of who he connects you with, when he connects you, and also listening and when you can hear him, you know, his voice. Well, one of the.
[00:51:01] Speaker B: And everyone can do it. Some people, if you're out there and you're thinking, well, I don't hear God, or what is that?
It might even sound strange or unusual. But the true nature of that relationship is we're called into that relationship more fully.
And if you just do the practices like Jesus gave us practices, and there's a combination of things, right? I mean, Jesus died and rose, and that part is well established. Like, hey, he did that on our behalf and obediently as one. But he also gave us these teachings. He didn't give us the teachings to say, well, just rely on the one and not the other. It's like, no, he gave us teachings of how to live. And a lot he pulled from the Old Testament. But Revelation shaped it so that we can have a direct relationship, which was a big deal because at the time, people didn't.
But he's calling us. If you do the practices, the Beatitudes, if people practice them, you'll have your own experience of this. And it's remarkable to see how the different gifts show up.
And if I were to put four seeds in the ground, an apple, pear, a tomato, an orange, whatever, they're going to produce different plants. Well, just like that, our gifts, they're. We're born with those gifts, but they're the seeds that need to be cultivated. And so how do we cultivate them? He gave us the Roadmap of here's how you get those cultivated. And it begins with allowing for the purification, which again, the Holy Spirit was a gift to help that purification to cut us off from the errors of our past and allow for us to come into that pure relationship of transformation which we're all called into.
[00:52:42] Speaker A: Yeah. In the book of Matthew, it talks about the different types of soil, right. And the seeds that are planted and how they come up, you know, in the thorns and the rocks, you know, and then the good soil.
And I think, you know, what's coming to me right now is I think all of the different types of soil is sin.
And the good soil is the cleanliness of Jesus cleansing us and giving us that forgiveness to cultivate and turn over something beautiful that can grow and develop. But that's only when we surrender. But until then, it's hard to have things really living through us and in us in those other soil types. And so this is just coming right now.
And, you know, and so in the book of Matthew of this, you know, it's my executive coach, John Peacock, a couple of years ago that gave us these cards about good soil. And this is like all of a sudden full circle with you sitting here.
But I think the good soil is us in Christ, and that's when he can then plant something beautiful and the gifts that he's given us, to have those grow into something great and God.
[00:53:53] Speaker B: Honoring well, and that's the call, the back cover of the book. I revised it since this print, but it's. You are. Well, this is the revision I'm going to say to you. You are called to live as another Christ, just as a caterpillar is called to live as the butterfly.
So we have to go through the death and new life, and it's built into us.
We don't have to do anything. We just have to allow for it and. Well, how do you allow for it? You nailed it. Well, you've got to have really good soil. You've got to allow for the sun to hit it, and you've got to allow for the water to hit it so that it can do its thing. It's got everything it needs in it. Well, the Christ alive in us is available.
We have to go through the willingness to allow for it to be fully living in us such that we can be that the hands and feet of Christ in the world today.
[00:54:54] Speaker A: Yeah, that's so good. Mark. Mark, we're going to take a quick break and we're going to come back to this, you know, great conversation that we're having. And we'll just continue on.
[00:55:02] Speaker B: Awesome.
[00:55:06] Speaker A: We'll be right back.
We're back with more on the inspired culture.
In this closing segment with Mark, we're going to explore Mark's book, Awakening youg Optimal Workforce.
Many leaders feel their teams are disengaged and underperforming, but traditional strategies just aren't working anymore.
So, Mark, welcome back. And the problem facing many in the audience today is that their workforce feels underperforming or disengaged, and it often feels like traditional leadership strategies aren't working anymore.
And so one of the questions that we have for you is, what inspired you to write Awakening youg Optimal Workforce and how does it differ from the leadership other leadership books?
[00:56:37] Speaker B: Well, in the same way that I shared the books came, you know, starting from the development, there's a skill that's developed to listen and honor and allow for God to speak in my heart.
And Awakening your optimal Workforce came in the same exact way.
And when I get these books and I say, get them, because it's almost like God downloads them into me, and I'm like, okay, can I type fast enough to get this all out or speak or however it's coming?
But Awaken youn Optimal Workforce was my most interesting work from the standpoint. I wrote it completely with a traditional developmental editor. I didn't know if it was good. I got it. And I'm like, can you just tell me? And she's like, and I hadn't been in corporate for a while. And so she's like, well, you can't say this and you can't say that.
So can we just, you know, soften this a little bit? Because it deals with some topics in there that can be a little bit sensitive. And we wanted it to be such that an HR team could look at it and say, okay, yeah, you know, we can. We can receive this. And my language was either too spiritual at times or might be too detailed at times. So she helped me from a developmental standpoint. And so we got this thing done.
And I remember my friend Bob, who used to work with me at my first tech company.
I said, hey, would you just read this? Let me know what you think. After. I felt like it was complete. And so we go to dinner, and I'm feeling pretty nervous. And he was a chief operation officer at a healthcare company at the time.
And he's just imagine, right, waiting. So we're sitting down, we're ordering. He's like, all right, let's talk about the book.
And he says, mark, On a scale of one to three, this is a seven.
He was just so moved, so blown away by the stories and how relatable it was. And he was closer to, like, employees and things than I was. He said, I see this everywhere in the company. He said, this is so rich.
And so I felt great.
But then the other part of me was like, okay, how much of this is about getting people to change behavior and how much of it is just to awaken people to the opportunity to choose? And I think that's the big thing in leadership, is sometimes a choice is withheld from employees because we might think, well, ah, I don't know how people are going to respond or react. If you're making choices from that, that's fear.
[00:59:22] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:59:22] Speaker B: We already established early on in this that the freedom from fear is a big deal. We don't want to make choices from there. So how do we free ourselves? So if someone's afraid, and I've had people say, mark, I can't bring this in because I don't know, it touches on love of self, love of others, freedom from fear. These things that are a little bit not psychology, but touch on softer elements and it's not the harder pieces.
And that shows me the area in them as a leader that is missing.
[00:59:58] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:59:59] Speaker B: But I was taking it early on as it's me. It's like, oh, well, I'm wrong. I got to make it better so that they accept it, so that they'll be willing to bring it into their organization. It's like, no, I need to give it to leaders who are courageous enough to give their people agency to go through the depths that need to happen for them to awaken. Because the fear is unconscious, I think, is that, well, if they awaken to the fullness of who they are, will they still want to be here?
[01:00:29] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, right. I mean, because now all of a sudden, I can make a decision, right.
And I may want to be here or I may not want to be here, but then it's hard for the leader because they have to look in the mirror. Am I a leader worth following?
Am I really real and authentic, or have I been living out something I'm not?
Well, this is going to be the call to action to my organization and say, either I'm all in and doubling down because the leader is who he is or she or not. Right. And so you get that check.
It's like that. You go into the doctor and you're getting a whole full makeover of a health exam on your leadership.
[01:01:13] Speaker B: Yeah. And would you want to go to the doctor and have the doctor aware of things and then say, oh, don't tell me the results or get the results and don't do anything to change it. It's like there's different elements of that, but the idea. So the idea of if you want to create the kind of organization that's going to allow for people to fully express themselves, which by the way, the younger generation is demanding.
[01:01:42] Speaker A: They are.
[01:01:43] Speaker B: And when they leave, they don't leave and just leave by themselves. They leave and they take everybody with them because they're like, hey, I found over here. This is the place to go. This is someone who knows how to lead. So if you are that, if you say, well, I'm going to be that, then get this book, start reading it, start practicing it, and start refining the things in you so that you can show up more fully. And then be courageous enough to allow for people to wake up and, and if they're not the right fit for your organization, let them go because someone else is even better. Yeah, and that's the misnomer. It's like, oh, I fear that Jody's gonna leave because if Jody leaves, then I'm gonna have this big gap in marketing. It's like, well, yeah, but you're missing the opportunity for Jody to have Jody's best life.
[01:02:31] Speaker A: That's right.
[01:02:31] Speaker B: And to fill the role with someone who comes in with the new you, the full you, and says, oh, that's the person that's right for me. And then I come in and blow it away even better than Jody could.
So temporary short term pains for long term evolution to a place where your organization can thrive even better.
[01:02:53] Speaker A: And when you think about that, it's about integrity underneath all of it. If you've been in integrity as a leader from day one, you'll never have anything to worry about because everybody knows where they are at, who they're being led by and what you can really offer them. Not pie in the sky, not the dangly carrot, none of those things. But hey, this is who we are. This is what we have today. My hope and the vision is we're going to be here and we're going to get there. This is what I have for you today.
And if we're in that space as a leader, you're a leader worth following.
And Mark's book is only going to be a blessing to your organization.
If you're not in that category.
I want to challenge and encourage you as a leader to read the book and say, what Do I need to do to get there? Right. And how do I need to become authentic and be really vulnerable with myself and own it? Because the sooner we do that, the better off we're going to be and our people around us.
And again, the only person we're tricking is ourselves, because everybody can see it. And so let's be that authentic leader. Let's get into your book and let's learn from it, and let's really do the work required for us to grow our teams.
[01:04:14] Speaker B: Well, well. And then we become pillars of light.
[01:04:16] Speaker A: Yes, Right.
[01:04:17] Speaker B: And if you're a pillar of light, then people will look and say, oh, I'm going to go in that direction. That's where I want to be. And the same character that we were playing with, Jody, you know, might go through the process and realize, wow, I didn't realize how good I had it here. I really love it.
Let's take this forward. And now you have a more engaged employee. Because one of the biggest issues we have on the planet right now is disengaged employees, disengagement, you know, Covid and work at home and all these things. It's like, oh, you know, in the lack of loyalty that's often involved in corporate America right now. It's like, no, let's get more engagement. Let's get the engagement to be at a level where you've got the best of them.
And when we have the best of them, they have the best of themselves. Right. So it's not like we're taking, it's more like we're giving.
They're rising up. And now their fruit that they're able to produce in that capacity is so much more vast. You know, your apples might have been this small before, but now it's like, oh, they're producing the big apples. Like, yeah, that's cool.
Let's encourage that.
So I think that one of the things that I want to land on here with awakening your optimal workforce is it's not a prescription, it's a roadmap that allows for someone to go at their own pace, allows for someone to reflect on their own life. And through that process, they become stronger, more courageous, more clear.
Because if you're wishy washy on which direction you're going, that's not good either. So more clear and more of a magnet. That pillar I was talking about, that pulls the right people in and repels the people that don't belong. And I want that all day long.
[01:06:03] Speaker A: Absolutely. Well, and it gives life, right? It brings life. It brings Fulfillment, all of those things. Mark, if you would share with the audience, where can people find you and where can they find your books?
[01:06:16] Speaker B: So the books are all on Amazon.
You can find me at.
Let's see, Mark. HadIsmail.com is good. Or Marka.com R O O K H A is the business side of things.
The Books are at thelolyprophet.com free. We'll let you start there if you want to kind of dive into the faith side of things. Awakening youg Optimal Workforce. Though if you go to ruka.com, you'll see a bunch of things there. Got some videos and access to the book.
[01:06:48] Speaker A: Awesome. And is there anything that you'd like to share with our audience? Before we go?
[01:06:55] Speaker B: I want to just say thank you.
One of the things that I was torn on is actually doing the podcast because I felt like, hey, God, you got me going to this church. I thought I was done with corporate stuff, you know, and I didn't see that they could mix. And so I've been praying like, hey, what's going on here? Why, why is this happening? And I got really clearly, it's like, Mark, it's not an either do the church thing or do the corporate thing. It's just that I had a lot of corporate baggage from the standpoint that people are afraid to bring faith into the workplace, you know, And I love what ccweat for Christ is doing right now, which I've, I've been seen more and more. That's like, hey, whether you're of one faith or another, it's like, why can't the workplace be a place where we can celebrate faith? So they've kind of helped me soften a little bit on that. Either do the church or do the corporate. And so to work with faith oriented leaders, to work with people who are open, that's just incredible. It's. I think where I'm going to land is find like, who are companies that really celebrate that? Whatever your faith is, but don't hide it. When you come to the office, let it be acceptable and open to allow for that to come in. Because I think people of faith are going to bring more value because they believe in something besides themselves. If we carry all that on our shoulders, you know what happens? We have a culture of anxiousness and we don't need a culture of anxiousness. If we let go of, of trying to carry the world and allow for God in whatever relationship with God that you currently have. God will lead you in a place where you can realize the depth of God is so much richer than any of us could ever comprehend.
[01:08:49] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. It gets bigger and bigger, deeper and deeper, and it's like the layer of an onion every time you grow and you continue to grow closer in your relationship with God, the more you trust and the more you surrender, the more you get to know him.
[01:09:09] Speaker B: And it doesn't start with finding a way to dive. It starts with willingness. That's where it starts. All it is willingness. So wherever you are right now, if you're watching this, you're like, hey, I don't know where to start, but I'm willing. If you just say, okay, I'm willing to trust me, God will show up.
[01:09:27] Speaker A: Yeah. Every time.
[01:09:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Someone's going to tap you on the shoulder, Someone's going to call you into a church service or a session where suddenly it's like, oh, wait, wait, this is leading me in that direction. This is opening that up. But it takes willingness.
[01:09:41] Speaker A: Yeah. That's how the Holy Spirit works through prayer.
[01:09:44] Speaker B: Right?
[01:09:44] Speaker A: Somebody already knows.
Somebody already knows.
Mark, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you here on our TV show today.
We're so grateful to have the opportunity for you to share your books and the wisdom that's been given to you with others. You know, we hope that all of our listeners and viewers today just received so many nuggets from what you had shared because you've given so much great knowledge and wisdom. And I love how God is working through your life and how he's utilizing you as a catalyst to bring his work into the world, you know, which is nothing less than spectacular. So it's been a pleasure having you here today. We'll definitely have to have you on again, and I'm grateful to have the opportunity to sit here with you myself. It's been an honor to hear your story, hear the work that you're doing and just the vision that you have. It's really neat.
[01:10:41] Speaker B: Thank you. I feel blessed to have been here. Thank you.
[01:10:44] Speaker A: You're welcome.
